| M865 |
Are you interested in languages at all?
//No. Well it doesn't matter then, don't have to be brainy.// |
| M952 |
//No [laugh] I'm no brainy. [laugh]//
[sigh] |
| M865 |
Okay.
Right, this is my first day in in Lerwick. |
| M952 |
Aye. |
| M865 |
Just arrived this morning. |
| M952 |
Yeah du should've taken better weather wi ye.
//[laugh]// |
| M865 |
//Oh yeah well, brought good weather to Orkney, sorry there was no good weather left now for Shetlands. [laugh]// |
| M952 |
Na, we're hae a very poor summer really. |
| M865 |
Yeah.
Well I've heard that it's always very windy here, isn't it? |
| M952 |
Oh yeah, but you get tae lea- live wi that, ye dinnae worry aboot it.
//You need tae see the sun though.// |
| M865 |
//Yeah.//
//Yeah.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh] We've no seen much o him this year.// |
| M865 |
Well it changes very quickly, doesn't it?
//Every twenty minutes you've got a different weather here.// |
| M952 |
//Oh yeah.//
Well this mornin I wakened to the rain, |
| M865 |
Uh-huh
//Mm.// |
| M952 |
//to beltin doon that woulda been aboot seeven o'clock, an I mean there a flat above o us.// |
| M865 |
Yeah.
//Oh dear.// |
| M952 |
//So [laugh] it was good rain! [laugh]// |
| M865 |
Right ehm. now we've got many languages and and dialects and accents in Scotland,
//ehm// |
| M952 |
//Uh-huh// |
| M865 |
what dialects and accents and languages do you know or do you know of? |
| M952 |
Weel never gae intae Scotland, just stay in in Shetland,
//ye get an affa lot o differences here.// |
| M865 |
//Oh right.//
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
If you go to the island o Whalsay |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
they have their ain wey of spaekin, |
| M865 |
Oh right. |
| M952 |
likes o if du were sayin somethin, "Ten men were [?]bain bain[/?] an nae a tablecloth upon them",
//[laugh] but but the case I mean, that is really the auld wey o spaekin in Whalsay,// |
| M865 |
//Okay, you've lost me here. [laugh]//
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
but I mean even Lerwick an Scalloway the difference between them was aa. |
| M865 |
Yeah. |
| M952 |
But I mean an if ye ging tae Orkney abody spaeks wi a sort o lilt tae their voice, |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
but I never paid any much attention. |
| M865 |
Okay.
Eh, do you know any Scottish other ma- maybe Scottish mainland ehm accents or dialects or languages? |
| M952 |
I can never understand eh the Cockney.
//Yeah I can understand [inaudible] [laugh] that's foreign [?]boors[/?].// |
| M865 |
//Cockney, well Cockney is London, isn't it? Yeah, well that's that's not not Scottish okay.//
//Mm uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh] No I've really never paid much attention although I worked sooth for a short time,// |
| M865 |
Okay. |
| M952 |
but eh just talk [?]most[/?] you can,
//never knew different.// |
| M865 |
//Okay, yeah, okay.//
Eh how would you describe your own language? |
| M952 |
Well we werena allooed tae spaek it at school, |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
they wanted us to spaek English
//an I objected tae that.// |
| M865 |
//Okay.//
Okay, but er how would you describe it today?
I mean if you talk to friends or family,
probably Shetlandic?
//Well you don't have to. [laugh]// |
| M952 |
//I I just canna change me tongue an that's it. [laugh]//
//I always mind when I first left school,// |
| M865 |
//Yeah.//
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
I was workin in a grocer's shop, Lipton's |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
and this English wife come in,
an I thought she said, "Can I fix me sock?",
ken I was thinkin her suspender was comin broken doon or somethin, I said, "Aye, go back ower", |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
an the chargehand looked at me as she go oot an he says, |
| M865 |
"What did yon wife say tae thee?" |
| M952 |
"Eh, she wanted tae change her sock,
//or fix her sock or somethin like that", she says "No", she says, "My, what a lovely stock you have here", [laugh]// |
| M865 |
//Fix her. [laugh]//
//Oh dear, uh-huh, uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
//so to be truthful I would sooner serve a Norwegian than a [laugh].// |
| M865 |
Yeah. |
| M952 |
An likes o bein the young boy in the shop you werena in danger o, well the war was really feenished but the stuff was still on the ration, |
| M865 |
Sorry? |
| M952 |
the f-f- food was still on the ration
//when I first well first left school,// |
| M865 |
//Okay, yeah, yeah.// |
| M952 |
an there was this letter cam roond sorta sayin
eh say there's a Norwegian boat in, |
| M865 |
mmhm |
| M952 |
you just sent them what you thought was proficient to tak them home |
| M865 |
mmhm |
| M952 |
you couldnae send cartons o this an cartons o the next,
and the old manager says, "No, Jack, you're you listen, you didnae hear this, you'll serve the foreigners frae noo an on
//instead o what ye want",// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm//
//Mmhm.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh] I so I ended up wi the Norwegian, it was a yewberry or strawberry, first guessed pear//
but when you're workin there it's funny hoo you caught on tae the languages
//cause there's somethin link Norwegian an Shetland together.// |
| M865 |
//Uh-huh.//
//Mmhm, yeah.// |
| M952 |
//But I mean I I dinnae ken it noo but that's years ago [inaudible].// |
| M865 |
Mo- most people speak like you here? |
| M952 |
I doot I'm a bad spaeker [laugh], |
| M865 |
Sorry, you're? |
| M952 |
I doo- I'm a poor spaeker. |
| M865 |
Oh. Well,
it's probably very original.
//Yeah.// |
| M952 |
//Yeah, it likely is.// |
| M865 |
Okay.
Eh do you have any accent or dialect in in Scotland that you like best? I mean you said you've never been outside of Shetland for very long. |
| M952 |
When I did me national service I worked sooth in Scotland for aboot six months wi Lipton's.
//I was in Aberdeen, Dundee, Perth,// |
| M865 |
//Right.//
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
Glenrothes,
just aye, just sort o twa or three days in each place just sort o relief manager. |
| M865 |
Mmhm mmhm.
//Mm mm okay.// |
| M952 |
//[cough] I really never paid much attention to the fock's languages.// |
| M865 |
Right
Okay, ehm, you've got your own parliament now in Scotland,
//eh in Edinburgh// |
| M952 |
//Aye, yeah, yeah.//
//Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//since nineteen ninety-nine eh you can also determine language political issues,//
//ehm// |
| M952 |
//Yeah.// |
| M865 |
what do you think, what l- what foreign languages should be taught at school? |
| M952 |
Well as far as I'm concerned I would go for Norwegian, |
| M865 |
Okay. |
| M952 |
because I mean we're as near tae Norway as we are tae Scotland, |
| M865 |
Yeah.
I know, I know [laugh]
//Mm.// |
| M952 |
//so I dinnae see why we didnae learn it//
but I mean as for learnin the French, well, if they tried to learn me that at school I [?]would renaig[/?] it |
| M865 |
Mm |
| M952 |
[laugh] cause I mean tae me I had no intention to ever go there. |
| M865 |
Yeah, yeah. |
| M952 |
The only twa places I would like tae gang to wis Norway or Holland for some reason or ither. |
| M865 |
Yeah.
Wh- what about the the languages the or the dialect or accent, I should say, that teachers use, what language should they speak? |
| M952 |
They should spaek Shetland.
//[laugh] Yeah, no, no, no, no, uh-huh.// |
| M865 |
//Shetland? Okay, not like Queen's English or anything? No no, Shetland, okay.// |
| M952 |
Cause if you're in here you should spaek, the same as if I go sooth |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
I hae tae try an change mi tongue so fock understands me
//if they come here they've tae learn my wey. [laugh]// |
| M865 |
//Yeah, yeah, yeah but if you go some-some- somewhere else you would probably have to change//
//your accent, yeah.// |
| M952 |
//I'd try to change yes//
//but wi great difficulty.// |
| M865 |
//Yeah but you can do it,//
//I've just seen it [laugh] oh it doesn't matter [laugh] don't worry.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh] Some embarrassin moments! [laugh]//
No the [?]cooncil[/?] liks it.
Say I got somebody on the phone |
| M865 |
Mmhm.
//Mmhm.// |
| M952 |
//an they're very posh spoken,//
I'm affa inclined tae go Shetland an then I get completely an utterly tongue-tied when I try to go
//ye ken it's just, I get embarrassed aboot it.// |
| M865 |
//Oh okay, oh right, okay okay.//
//Yeah I try to try hard to understand you so.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh]// |
| M865 |
Okay ehm have you ever heard eh of a language called Scots, not the the Scots people but the language called Scots? |
| M952 |
Weel
//Banff and Buckie that ains hae their ain wey o spaekin// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M952 |
what we used tae ca the the gutters. |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
Well that was the Scottish women that came up here tae fillet the kippers an the herrin an that, ye ken, an pack it an that. |
| M865 |
Sorry, what was that? |
| M952 |
Tae
oh in the herring fishing,
//they used tae come up here an affa lot o Scots ains come up here an that wis mainly Banff, Buckie,// |
| M865 |
//Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.//
uh-huh |
| M952 |
that area an they haed a language o their ain sorta style you kent whaur they come fae soon as ye heard them cacklin, |
| M865 |
Okay.
//Yeah.// |
| M952 |
//but eh I never paid enough attention tae it.// |
| M865 |
But I mean the term "Scots" referring to a language, have you ever heard this? |
| M952 |
Na,
//no [laugh].// |
| M865 |
//No?//
Have you ev- eh Robert Burns?
//I'm sure you sure you have, okay ehm linguists would say that the language that Robert Burns used and even way before that, that was Scots// |
| M952 |
//Yeah, mmhm, uh-huh.//
//Yeah. Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//ehm and today it survives in a number of dialects, like for example Shetland//
//and also Orkney and Glas- Glaswegian and Doric and s- stuff like that, now there's people eh both in in politics and private people// |
| M952 |
//Yes, uh-huh.//
//Uh-huh.// |
| M865 |
//eh would like to give Scots a greater prominence//
//[inaudible]// |
| M952 |
//Oh I'd be in//
favour of that, but then this is, first of all I'm a Shetlander
//an I'd sooner gie Shetland a mair part or pro-// |
| M865 |
//Yeah, okay, okay.// |
| M952 |
cause I mean tae me I'm a Shetlander first, |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
then I'll likely be British,
//then I'll be Scottish, but I'll never be English.// |
| M865 |
//Okay, okay.//
//We'll come to that we'll come to that in a minute [laugh] very good ehm,// |
| M952 |
//Yeah [laugh].//
//Uh-huh oh yeah.// |
| M865 |
//so talking about Scots ehm you've said you would be in favour of giving Scots a greater prominence eh what would this entail, what would it mean?// |
| M952 |
Well I I dinnae want tae see the United Kingdom broken up, |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
but I'd like tae see Scots haein chairge o their ain s- ain affairs,
they couldnae hae maybe eh defence an that but ye ken the the runnin an spendin the money |
| M865 |
mmhm |
| M952 |
you ken, bar the defence or that kind o idea sh- eh breedin
//but I'd like tae see Scotland bein free.// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm mm.//
Well, I mean there's various ways in in in giving Scots
//greater prominence eh you// |
| M952 |
//mmhm// |
| M865 |
could for example produce more writings in Scots,
//ehm you could use Scots more on television or on the radio eh you could try to// |
| M952 |
//Mmhm yeah.//
//Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//enlarge the vocabulary, invent new words in Scots, any idea?// |
| M952 |
Weel it's kinda, tae me, when the TV is on, even when you put on a Gaelic programme |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
tae me I'm no really interested in that in in wir hoose
//in terms o// |
| M865 |
//Okay.// |
| M952 |
I'm no interested in form o spaekin an somebody [laugh]
//translatin it.// |
| M865 |
//Yeah.// |
| M952 |
I would just hae that wan language comin through
//and hae the man showin his lips// |
| M865 |
//Uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
but where's spaekin it haed tae be in English cause
//it's the only language we ken, well.// |
| M865 |
//Mm okay.//
Can I just show you something? |
| M952 |
Yeah.
//Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//This is a children's books book ehm by a publisher called Itchycoo,//
//and they do children's books eh in what they think Scots is,// |
| M952 |
//Oh aye [laugh].// |
| M865 |
eh in this language, |
| M952 |
uh-huh
//Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//so maybe you could just take a look at any of the stories and tell me what you think about it,//
just pick any of the stories and then |
| M952 |
[laugh]
Yeah I could easy understand yon, nae trouble wi that.
//Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.// |
| M865 |
//You can understand that? Uh-huh.//
//Ah I'm not sure if that, okay.// |
| M952 |
//But you try readin Shetland [laugh] I cannae even understand it. [laugh]//
Cause I mean we we just werena allowed tae tae spaek it at school at aa, |
| M865 |
Mmhm. |
| M952 |
you'd just get made a damn fool o. |
| M865 |
Mm. |
| M952 |
But wan teacher in particular, Clarky, well he lived tae a right old age, if he'd hae fallen in the gutter
//I might hae rubbed my feet on him, I wouldnae help him up.// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm.//
Mmhm.
//Sorry qui- didn't quite get this// |
| M952 |
//[laugh]//
//No it wis a schoolteacher// |
| M865 |
//[laugh]//
//yeah, okay yeah.// |
| M952 |
//and his name wis Clark,//
an he lived tae be an old man, |
| M865 |
Okay mmhm |
| M952 |
but if he'd been lyin in the gutter |
| M865 |
Mmhm.
//Okay oh right, okay okay, uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
//I wouldnae help tae pick him up, I might hae rubbed my feet on him cause eh just ower the language barrier, and he wis a Shetlander.//
//Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, ye haed tae spaek this English an// |
| M865 |
//But he forced to, forced you to to speak English? Uh-huh.//
//Oh right okay, uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
//oh he came oot wi the Shakespeare an aa that [laugh] he was interested in that, we werena.//
//[laugh] Yeah, yeah, yeah.// |
| M865 |
//Oh right okay, so you like this? Yeah? You think it's a good idea to to publish something like that? Okay.//
Can just show you something
//else?// |
| M952 |
//Yes.// |
| M865 |
Ehm this is a print-out from the website of the Scottish Parliament,
//eh also in Scots.// |
| M952 |
//Mmhm.// |
| M865 |
Or what they think Scots is.
So maybe you can
//read this and comment on this too.// |
| M952 |
//Right, "We want tae mak sense"//
Mmhm.
Yeah I could understand yon nae trouble at all,
//mmhm.// |
| M865 |
//Right.// |
| M952 |
but if I'm no, I'm a affa poor reader, |
| M865 |
mmhm |
| M952 |
I mean I I've bluffed me wey through me life aa me time,
//at school likes o,// |
| M865 |
//Oh right! [laugh]// |
| M952 |
[exhale] I never was good at readin, I wasn't even concentratin ken ye'd get readin aroon the class, |
| M865 |
Mmhm
//Mmhm mmhm okay.// |
| M952 |
//an of course I would pick up me book when it cam my turn, I was maybe three pages ahind [laugh] of course, stutterin.//
"Oh sit down!" [inaudible] cairry-on. So you got oot o it, |
| M865 |
Uh-huh uh-huh. |
| M952 |
and I mean very soon, every readin class, the teachers would get that fed up o me. |
| M865 |
[laugh] So do you think it's a good idea for the Scottish Parliament to do that?
//Okay, okay, great.// |
| M952 |
//Yeah definitely, have a bash at it.// |
| M865 |
Now what I've just shown
//you are two examples of modern Scots// |
| M952 |
//Yeah uh-huh//
//yeah.// |
| M865 |
//eh or modern Scots usage ehm,//
maybe you can show you something else.
Ehm at the moment Scots defined as the language spoken by some people in the Lowlands and also here in the Northern Islands,
ehm comprising various dialects like for example Shetlandic and
//Glaswegian,// |
| M952 |
//Yeah//
but see these road signs yonder?
//W- mmhm yeah.// |
| M865 |
//Yeah j- just wait a second [laugh] eh it's almost only eh used for private conversation,//
in which of the following language situations would you also welcome the use of Scots, this this kind of language? |
| M952 |
Mmhm. |
| M865 |
So maybe you could take a look at these ehm language situations |
| M952 |
Uh-huh. |
| M865 |
and tell me where you would also welcome the use of Scots? |
| M952 |
Well this is, I disagree wi that, I would hae the road signs in Shetland,
//an while you're in Shetland,// |
| M865 |
//Yeah.// |
| M952 |
because I mean the, an affa lot o fock against this, you kinda, they say, "The, well I mean the Shetland is the thistle an aa that".
Well the thistle's nothin tae do wi Shetland,
We try to bury them. |
| M865 |
You tried to bury who? |
| M952 |
Thistles.
//Doesnae want thistles.// |
| M865 |
//Thistles?//
//Yeah, I know, I know, yeah, yeah.// |
| M952 |
//It's just the Scottish emblem ye ken, the thistle, but I mean//
What has that tae do wi Shetland? |
| M865 |
Okay. |
| M952 |
Nothin. |
| M865 |
Well you're part of Scotland officially. |
| M952 |
Well why do we hae [inaudible] they're they're sayin so we could hae a [inaudible] |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. Okay. |
| M952 |
I mean I lik I say the road signs should be in whatever [cough]
//ken if if it is in Aberdeen it should be in, sae fock there understands it better than ony ither body.// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm, okay.// |
| M952 |
[inaudible]
Well I kaen nothin aboot the website [laugh] I'm ower old for that.
I think the school teachers should be able to spaek Shetland.
//[laugh]// |
| M865 |
//Mmhm okay yeah you've made your point.//
Now definitely I will take this point, yeah. |
| M952 |
[cough] Ken at sermons at school we haed music,
her name was Miss [?]Billcliff[/?].
Eh oh she wis a right old maid,
//I means, the bun in the back o the head an.// |
| M865 |
//Mm mmhm mmhm.// |
| M952 |
Eh, what the, it was sort of somethin "Come Aw-", "Nymphs and Shepherds Come Away", I canna mind the na-, the song noo,
but oh if we'd sing this right then she'd play us Up-Helly-Aa song, it wis comin very near Up-Helly-Aa
//an we were aa great believers in Up-Helly-Aa.// |
| M865 |
//Oh right okay, uh-huh.// |
| M952 |
So we tried this an then cam tae oh no she wouldnae play it
and before the end o the period she was puttin three o the boys up tae the heidmaister's room tae get the strap |
| M865 |
Uh-huh. |
| M952 |
but the only thing wis he didnae strap them, he cam doon an stood ootside the music door
//an her an [?]wis[/?] were havin a right barney.// |
| M865 |
//Right.// |
| M952 |
It turned oot she couldnae even play
//the Up-Helly-Aa song and the heidmaister was like, "Oh", he said "[?]axe ye echt year ago[/?],// |
| M865 |
//Uh-huh.//
Right. |
| M952 |
so we got no more music the rest of our time at school. |
| M865 |
Mmhm.
//Mmhm oh right [laugh].// |
| M952 |
//Oh it was great! We werena wantin it. [laugh]//
[cough] But I mean that heidmaster realised we we- we were done wur bit
//an she couldnae dae her bit so.// |
| M865 |
//Mm mmhm mmhm yeah.//
Okay, can we just come back
//this to this eh question here? Ehm// |
| M952 |
//Yeah mmhm.// |
| M865 |
Would you welcome, you know, the use of Scots in newspapers, road signs, private letters and so on?
Do you think it's a good idea to use Scots in in these language situations? |
| M952 |
No on the road signs in Shetland, or we have Shetland signs. |
| M865 |
Yeah okay we- well She- Shetland is is part of Scots,
//eh Scots, part of the Scots language is is it's a Scots dialect.// |
| M952 |
//Yeah yeah but mm yeah mmhm.// |
| M865 |
So, any any other language situations where you would like
//use of Scots?// |
| M952 |
//But you see I ken nothin aboot emails [inaudible].//
Children's books, yeah, I'm all in favour o that.
//[inaudible] no.// |
| M865 |
//Uh-huh.//
//Mmhm.// |
| M952 |
//The Bible in church. [laugh]//
Oh God the the auld bu- auld bugs that used to be the Sunday school teachers here they hae they hae them translated tae Shetland near enough. [laugh]
//Yeah, mmhm, yeah.// |
| M865 |
//Actually the- there is a Bi- eh Bible tr- well a New Testament translation into Scots ehm from I think nineteen eighty-four, Lorimer is the translator, yeah.// |
| M952 |
I know, but I mean even the Bible even Sco- I do- I think it should be,
//cause it's in every i- every ither language// |
| M865 |
//Yeah sure, yeah sure.//
//Mm// |
| M952 |
//[cough] Websites an that I've nae interest in at aa. I'm ower old for that//
//[laugh]// |
| M865 |
//oh right okay.//
//Can we just to finish off ehm do a last questionnaire about yourself eh just to give me some some background information?// |
| M952 |
//Mm// |
| M865 |
Can you tell me the decade of your birth? |
| M952 |
Thirteenth o the third, nineteen thirty-seeven.
//mmhm// |
| M865 |
//So the thirties? Okay yeah, eh you were born?//
//Okay.// |
| M952 |
//In Lerwick.// |
| M865 |
Ehm how long have you been living in Scotland, all your life? |
| M952 |
Been She- in Shetland aa mi life except for two years, six months.
//[laugh] Yeah.// |
| M865 |
//Okay, great so that answers the next question as well, eh what is your occupation?// |
| M952 |
Weel I'm retired noo. I used tae work in a sma ship repair yard |
| M865 |
Okay. |
| M952 |
an servicin fire extinguishers an that kind o thing. |
| M865 |
Okay as a fire extinguisher,
//and in in the shipyards?// |
| M952 |
//Uh-huh. Yeah.// |
| M865 |
Okay right ehm are you married, were you
//married?// |
| M952 |
//Yeah yeah.//
//No, no my wife's retired noo, she worked in Laing's chemist shop.// |
| M865 |
//What does or what did your wife do? Okay.//
//Eh so- sorry what was that, can? Okay okay, right okay.// |
| M952 |
//[laugh] She worked in a sma chemist shop doon at the corner here.// |
| M865 |
Eh and finally, well we've almost answered this question, how strongly do you feel
//British, Scottish, English and any other, if you just take a look at these diagrams here, British, Scottish, English and any other, from zero meaning "not at all" to four meaning "very much" or "very strongly",// |
| M952 |
//Uh-huh mmhm mmhm.//
//Well,// |
| M865 |
//so// |
| M952 |
I would class mesel as British but I'd class mesel as Shetland first |
| M865 |
Okay, right.
//Let's say "other" would be Shetland here? Eh how how strongly do you feel Shetland?// |
| M952 |
//Yeah I'd be Shetland.//
Well Shetland should be the main thing. |
| M865 |
Okay, four.
Is that what you're saying?
//Okay.// |
| M952 |
//Yeah mmhm.// |
| M865 |
What about British, Scottish and English? |
| M952 |
Well, I'll be British. |
| M865 |
Okay, which numberwould you pick? |
| M952 |
Ach, aboot two.
//Maybe Scottish two.// |
| M865 |
//Two? Okay. Scottish?//
//Scottish two also? Okay.// |
| M952 |
//Aye, yeah.// |
| M865 |
English? |
| M952 |
No.
//[laugh] put in Wales an Ireland I might say better for them! [laugh] [cough].// |
| M865 |
//Alright. [laugh] Okay right thank you very much.// |
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