SCOTS Project - www.scottishcorpus.ac.uk Document : 821 Title : Interview 08: Headteacher in North East Scotland Author(s): N/A Copyright holder(s): Prof Christian J Kay SCOTS Project Audio transcription M845: Well they, I was born in Sandyhills in the east end of Glasgow F606: mmhm M845: and eh earliest memories, [inaudible] I was thinkin that on the way in today that you would probably ask me that, my earliest memory was as a, a small under-five child being taken along for the wee sugar cube, if you remember ye got a dot of F606: Oh yeah! [laugh] M845: eh medicine on a sugar cube for some disease //whether// F606: //Yeah.// M845: diptheria or whatever. //An I remember goin// F606: //Yeah uh-huh.// M845: along there to the, the medical centre wi my mum. F606: Yeah. M845: So that, that's probably my earliest memory but eh very happy days and eh unlike these days it was always, ye always stayed in the one house. //We only// F606: //mmhm// M845: ever moved once and eh we were in council housing and it was a swap //with a lady we knew// F606: //ah// M845: who had a, a two-bedroomed house //an we had a one-// F606: //Yeah.// M845: bedroomed house so it was a, in fact it's the other way rou-, she'd a three, we'd a two, beg your pardon //an we s- we did a// F606: //mm// M845: swap as you used to do in those days. F606: Yeah? M845: But we stayed with my granny, she was in the house, she stayed with us F606: mmhm M845: and eh the whole family unit was there. F606: Yeah. M845: I mean in terms o- of language eh the- there were certainly words that, that my grandmother used which eh we don't //but we're aware of them,// F606: //Yeah.// M845: eh words like 'ben', ben the //ben the lobby, ben the hoose// F606: //ben [inaudible]// mmhm M845: we, we know what they mean but we just don't use them anymore. F606: Yeah. M845: Eh 'doon the water' was a phrase which we all understand tae mean a, a sail on a, an old paddle //steamer down the water.// F606: //Yeah [laugh]// M845: We know it existed but we just don't refer to it cause they don't exist anymore F606: mmhm M845: and, ye know, an it's noticeable that my children now haven't a clue //and, they don't understand these things anymore.// F606: //They don't understand the words, mm.// M845: So it is gradually being lost, there's no doubt F606: Yeah. M845: ehm F606: So when did you move north? M845: Well eh when I married which was eh nineteen eighty-three eh, our first house was in Hillington in the, the south side of Glasgow, F606: mmhm M845: and it was two years after that I got my first promotion to Argyll F606: oh aye. M845: in the west coast. F606: Yeah. M845: and we were there for over seven years and I remember eh one of the local's saying there that I've never lost my dialect //eh while a lot o// F606: //Yeah.// M845: people have been integrated and obviously pickin up the west coast lilt F606: mmhm M845: eh I never seemed to, Um but then eh moved back to south Lanarkshire, various jobs eh to Perth and Kinross and Crieff and finally up here //eh// F606: //mmhm// M845: five, six years ago now. F606: Right, yeah. M845: Eh I mean in terms of my, my speech if you like, I, I notice and it has been remarked, when I go back and I speak to my brothers //I do become// F606: //mmhm// M845: broader Glaswegian. F606: Yeah [laugh] M845: Eh, however, when I'm out, you know, obviously working but eh in other areas of the country, I assume this much more Sunday, dignified F606: [laugh] yeah. M845: speech. F606: Right [laugh] M845: ehm F606: I mean, because the dialect seems to be stronger up here than it is in //Glasgow.// M845: //Oh it is// eh and I've noticed that, that, that we have picked up one or two phrases //eh// F606: //mmhm// M845: ye know, may-, maybe it's a Perthshire phrase but 'the morn's morn' //instead of 'tomorrow'// F606: //Yeah// uh-huh M845: is one that, that we now naturally use F606: Yeah. M845: an it's, ye know, it's difficult to say when ye, ye begin tae change but //it jist kinda// F606: //mmhm// M845: by osmosis F606: yeah [laugh] M845: you find yourself adopting new words and phrases. F606: mmhm M845: um F606: What about your own children, do they? M845: Yeah ehm [inaudible] they, because we've moved around so much they don't really have any strong association with any particular area F606: mm M845: eh the- their births are registered in Argyll, //eh their// F606: //Yeah.// M845: fondest memories were, of growing up, were probably in Crieff, //and here they are in// F606: //mmhm// M845: in Angus, living in Angus now. F606: Yeah. M845: Eh so, so they are eh kinda mixed-up kids //um// F606: //mmhm// M845: they, they, they've sort of adopted the, the same eh speech as, as me, my wife and I, my wife comes from Johnstone, //out// F606: //mmhm// M845: by Paisley and fairly indistinguishable, eh just the same as myself, //a-, and my, the// F606: //Yeah.// M845: children are the same, F606: Yeah. M845: ehm you know, the- there is a, The- there is a sort of language that, that Angus people u- there i-, use, there is a, a lilt to their voice particularly and, and my children haven't picked that up. F606: mmhm //[laugh]// M845: //I don't know why.// F606: Depends what age they were when you came up here, //I suppose, yeah.// M845: //Yeah.// Eh my daughter was just starting secondary school so she was eh eleven and my son would have been much younger so he would have been seven F606: uh-huh M845: but again no real, no real distinctive //north-eastern// F606: //mm// M845: speech. Probably because they, so much time with us of course. F606: Yeah [laugh] M845: ehm F606: So how do you like living up here then? M845: Smashing, yes it's, it's great, um, you know, the proximity to the hills is, is super, the space F606: mmhm M845: ah it's far enough away from Glasgow and the south that you don't get pestered by people but //it's near enough// F606: //mmhm// M845: that they can visit if they want. //Ehm// F606: //Yeah [laugh]// M845: no, the quality o life is super an, ye know, ye, ye see the number of eh people that have arrived from all over //Britain,// F606: //mmhm// M845: ye know? We've got staff here from Shetland, all the way down to England, //Leeds,// F606: //Yeah.// M845: and beyond. F606: uh-huh M845: Eh, ye know, people are attracted here by the same things as we are, F606: Yeah. M845: quality o life it's, it's really good. F606: Cause this, they're building quite a lot of new houses, yeah? M845: They are eh all over the place, eh within Laurencekirk they are //and eh// F606: //mmhm// M845: ye know, we stay in Kirriemuir F606: mmhm M845: and the only thing that's holding it up there is the, the, the limitations of the, the public amenities, //ye know, the,// F606: //Yeah.// M845: they really need to upgrade the water and sewerage before they can add any more onto the system. F606: mmhm M845: So eh, yeah, building all over the place F606: Yeah. M845: and eh lots of people coming in, which is good. F606: So the school roll's gone up then? M845: It certainly has, yeah ehm when I arrived here in May nineteen ninety-nine the, the roll was four hundred and forty, four hundred and fifty //an// F606: //mmhm// M845: now, it's six hundred and s- fifty-four this year, //due to go up next year to around s-, just under six seventy we think.// F606: //[laugh]// Yeah? M845: So, yeah it's, it's, but, but next year will be the, the most, thereafter it will be falling, F606: mmhm //[laugh]// M845: //we just don't think it'll be falling as much as Aberdeenshire think it will// F606: Right [laugh] M845: ehm F606: So are you very overcrowded or M845: Very much so. F606: uh-huh M845: Uh we've had four huts or as they like to call them, 'relocatables' //but they're, but they're huts,// F606: //Is that ah so?// Yeah [laugh] M845: eh four huts stuck on to the back o the school to cope. F606: mmhm M845: But it's really in terms of the, the specialist rooms, the computin rooms and technical rooms an F606: mmhm M845: eh home economics that we really need additional rooms but they, these just won't be provided anymore. F606: No. M845: Eh in fact there's a public meeting tonight to look at the, the new school which is being //talked about,// F606: //ah// //yeah.// M845: //one of// twenty-four projects by Aberdeenshire, //so we// F606: //Yeah.// M845: we hope to be part of that twenty point three million quoted as being the most expensive //option,// F606: //Yeah [laugh]// M845: so we hope to be that. F606: For one building or M845: For one building, //yeah.// F606: //uh-huh// M845: I mean I notice eh you have here eh, 'early days and teaching', //my, my first teaching// F606: //Yeah.// M845: post was in Easterhouse in Glasgow //at Lochend Secondary// F606: //Oh, was it? [laugh]// M845: so I was there for five years, F606: mmhm M845: um //a-// F606: //it's quite// M845: and I remember s- know, teachers saying there's almost a subculture there within Easterhouse //ehm// F606: //mmhm// M845: i- it was a remarkable place at the time, it certainly has changed I know //eh// F606: //mmhm// M845: but at that time which was early ninteen-eighties, I was told it had the population of Perth F606: mmhm M845: and almost no facilities, //[inaudible] ye know?// F606: //Yeah, that's// M845: It had one shopping area F606: mmhm M845: and one pub and that was it. F606: Yeah. M845: Essentially there were three roads in F606: mmhm M845: to Easterhouse, eh one down to Edinburgh Road well, two down to Edinburgh Road in different directions, eh one out towards ehm oh there's a loch out by Lochend Secondary, a- and it really was a self-contained community, it was a remarkable place. F606: mmhm //Mm but.// M845: //Just// just heavin. //[laugh]// F606: //[laugh]// //So what was your subject?// M845: //[laugh]// eh Maths. //eh// F606: //Oh right, yeah.// M845: I taught maths there for, for five years. F606: That's quite challenging I should think. M845: Yes ehm, but having said that there were many many good families there at the time, //ye know?// F606: //mmhm// M845: Clearly it was an area of deprivation, but I remember one girl in particular who came to school every day with her, the old-fashioned white hose as we used to call them, F606: uh-huh? M845: eh school uniform, very smartly turned out because the family wanted her to do well. F606: Yeah. M845: And it was the sort of place, ye, much like Mearns in some ways, ye know, you could be different and you weren't really at the butt end of a lot of leg-pulling, F606: mmhm M845: ye know, people allowed ye tae be the way ye were //if that's how ye were.// F606: //Yeah.// uh-huh M845: Um i- it, it was a happy school; you obviously ha- didn't have as much of a top end F606: No. M845: of ability as you would do in some places, //but// F606: //mmhm// M845: I really enjoyed my time there, //and eh// F606: //mm// M845: kids were great. F606: mmhm M845: Ehm [inaudible] ye know and th- they used to, out on the pitches, there was an area of, outside the school about nine or ten blaze pitches, a huge area //and one// F606: //Yeah.// M845: grass pitch for rugby, F606: uh-huh [laugh] M845: so they, they used to go out there wi their golf clubs at the weekend or during the week and they'd hit golf balls from one end of the, the rugby pitch to the other, F606: mmhm? M845: an when they were finished what the sport was that ye just fired the golf ball straight in the school, //so you, I mean, the glaziers were out// F606: //[laugh]// //[laugh]// M845: //three times a week,// //eh// F606: //Yes [laugh]// M845: repairing windows; it was an astonishing amount o money was paid out in broken windows. And eh, ye know, it wasn't unusual to find golf balls in your room in the morning. //[laugh]// F606: //[laugh] [sigh]// M845: Ehm, ye know, the, the more bizarre one was ehm I, I was team teaching with a, a teacher an she says, eh, "Gordon", she says, "come over here an see this", she says, "is that legal?" I says, "What?", she says, "Look oot there", and on the pitches there was a guy wi a, a whippet dog and he had a big sack so he reached into the sack and pulled out a rabbit //so.// F606: //What, live?// //uh-huh?// M845: //Aye!// Waved it in front o the dog an let it off an, holding the dog for a few seconds, set the dog off to chase the rabbit. Once it had run it down, brought it back, he pulled another one out and I don't know how many he had in his sack //but that [laugh]// F606: //Good grief! [laugh]// M845: that was him amusement f- //his amusement of a morning.// F606: //Yeah [laugh]// In training his whippet //presuma- [laugh]// M845: //Training a whippet for chasin, for chasin rabbits.// F606: Oh that's a real community school //[laugh]// M845: //Oh absolutely.// //So ye saw// F606: //Yeah.// M845: ye saw eh all of life there, that's for sure. F606: Yeah. M845: Ehm The school was, was eh just over the road from one row of shops which was the main post office for the, for Easterhouse, and it wasn't again unusual eh tae find, particularly elderly people taking the shortcut //between the// F606: //mmhm// M845: shops and the post office, havin picked up their pension to go home. F606: mmhm M845: So you'd find them walkin through the school //[laugh]// F606: //[laugh]// M845: "Can I help ye?" "Ah it's alright son, I'm, I'm just on ma way home, //I'll no be botherin ye",// F606: //[laugh]// //Right [laugh].// M845: //and they'd just toddle through and walk out the back door!// //[laugh]// F606: //Fair enough, yeah [laugh].// M845: So they, it was before Dunblane and security measures, //and so on.// F606: //Yes, that's right,// yeah, you're much, ye have to be more careful now, //yeah.// M845: //Aye, that's right.// F606: uh-huh M845: So. F606: [tut] Well thanks //very much.// M845: //So is that enough?// //Yeah?// F606: //Yeah, that's fine,// yes, that's good. This work is protected by copyright. All rights reserved. The SCOTS Project and the University of Glasgow do not necessarily endorse, support or recommend the views expressed in this document. Information about document and author: Audio Audio audience Adults (18+): For gender: Mixed Audience size: 1 Audio awareness & spontaneity Speaker awareness: Aware Degree of spontaneity: Spontaneous Special circumstances surrounding speech: Participant had been asked to select a topic in advance Audio footage information Year of recording: 2005 Recording person id: 606 Size (min): 13 Size (mb): 61 Audio setting Education: Recording venue: School staff room Geographic location of speech: Laurencekirk Audio relationship between recorder/interviewer and speakers Not previously acquainted: Speakers knew each other: N/A Audio transcription information Transcriber id: 631 Year of transcription: 2005 Year material recorded: 2005 Word count: 2237 Audio type Interview: General description: Interview about childhood in Glasgow and teaching career Participant Participant details Participant id: 606 Gender: Female Decade of birth: 1940 Educational attainment: University Age left school: 18 Upbringing/religious beliefs: Protestantism Occupation: Academic Place of birth: Edinburgh Region of birth: Midlothian Birthplace CSD dialect area: midLoth Country of birth: Scotland Place of residence: Glasgow Region of residence: Glasgow Residence CSD dialect area: Gsw Country of residence: Scotland Father's place of birth: Leith Father's region of birth: Midlothian Father's birthplace CSD dialect area: midLoth Father's country of birth: Scotland Mother's place of birth: Edinburgh Mother's region of birth: Midlothian Mother's birthplace CSD dialect area: midLoth Mother's country of birth: Scotland Languages: Language: English Speak: Yes Read: Yes Write: Yes Understand: Yes Circumstances: All Language: Scots Speak: No Read: Yes Write: No Understand: Yes Circumstances: Work Participant Participant details Participant id: 845 Gender: Male Decade of birth: 1950 Age left school: 17 Upbringing/religious beliefs: Protestantism Occupation: Headteacher Place of birth: Glasgow Region of birth: Glasgow Birthplace CSD dialect area: Gsw Country of birth: Scotland Place of residence: Kirriemuir Region of residence: E Angus Residence CSD dialect area: Ags Country of residence: Scotland Father's occupation: Insurance salesman Father's place of birth: Glasgow Father's region of birth: Glasgow Father's birthplace CSD dialect area: Gsw Father's country of birth: Scotland Mother's occupation: Clerical assistant Mother's place of birth: Glasgow Mother's region of birth: Glasgow Mother's birthplace CSD dialect area: Gsw Mother's country of birth: Scotland Languages: Language: English Speak: Yes Read: Yes Write: Yes Understand: Yes Circumstances: At work, at home, everywhere Language: French Speak: Yes Read: No Write: No Understand: Yes Circumstances: At elementary level - holiday/letters to friends